Unsolveable level on Humax Freeview set-top box?

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bren
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Joined: 2005-10-10
Unsolveable level on Humax Freeview set-top box?

Hi,
I am having trouble solving this level which is on a game on a
television set-top box (Humax) for receiving United Kingdomdigital television (Freeview).

Been trying for ages and I am stumped although I presume it
is solvable because I have had similar probs in the past but finally
got there in the end.

(Its about level 76 but I am unsure because it is on someone
elses box and I forgot to write down the level.)

Can you tell me
a) If it is solvable.
b) What is the solution!!

I just really want to know if it is solvable so I won't use the solution
unless I absolutely have to, it's on my friends box and he can't
get to the next level without solving this one, he has been trying for
weeks and weeks, I have had a several trys at it but with no luck.

Anyway here is the puzzle in the format that the download program
saves them in:-

Title here Description Author's E-Mail Author's Web Site ######### # # # ####### $$ # # #....# # ######$#....# ## # #....# # # #$ $ ###### # # $ $ $ # # @ $ # # #####$ $$ # # # #######

That doesn't look right on this screen but it should work as when I
copy it back into a wordpad text file (where it came from) it looks
correct.

Many thanks in advance, my friend in particular would be very grateful
as he doesn't have a computer or internet access, just the puzzels
on his set top box which must be completed in order.

PS: He was not very happy when I acidently reset his box meaning he
had to got through about 70 levels again!!! Blush

blackrose
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Joined: 2005-04-27

It doesn't fix it to copy-paste it into Notepad.

A common convention is to use thye underscore _ in place of spaces for the floor. If you do that and repost the level with _ instead of spaces, I can see if I can help you.

minglw
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Joined: 2005-10-20

Yes, it's solvable.

Here's my Solution:

  Moves/Pushes/Box-lines/Changes/Steps/Pusher-lines: 494/169/67/36/61/235

In XSB format with "blank" replaced with underscore (_),
the level looks like this:

_______######### _______#__#____# _#######_$$____# _#________#....# _#_######$#....# ##_#______#....# #__#_#$_$_###### #_#_$_$_$_#_____ #_@__$_#__#_____ #####$_$$_#_____ ____#_____#_____ ____#######__

blackrose, to see the original poster's level in the proper format, all you need to do is press "quote" on his post. Then you will see the correct level in the reply window. It's a bit awkward, but it works.

hdp
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Joined: 2005-11-02

Hi Bren,

it sounds interesting, please can you all the levels from these "box" make available for other sokoban enthusiasts?

HDP

bren
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Joined: 2005-10-10

Hi Bren,

it sounds interesting, please can you all the levels from these "box" make available for other sokoban enthusiasts?

HDP

Hi I will try go get some of the other levels however it is not my set top
box so it may take a while for me get back to you!!
I will try and get the more interesting harder ones.

bren
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Joined: 2005-10-10

Yes, it's solvable.

Here's my Solution:

  Moves/Pushes/Box-lines/Changes/Steps/Pusher-lines: 494/169/67/36/61/235

Thanks a lot for that (assuming it works) I have not
tried the solution myself yet as I may want to solve it
for myself now I am sure it is solvable (I will probably give up
though).

Is pushes 169, moves 494 a lot? Would you consider it a hard
puzzle to do? I was thinking it was not possible but the I have
thought that before of other puzzels.

I did try a computer program to solve it but after about 5 hours
it ran out of memory/disk space so I thought it must be tough!!
Its an old computer but it could thrash me at chess in a few seconds!!
Maybe the solving program was not very good.

Onec again thanks, my friend will be pleased.

minglw
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Joined: 2005-10-20

Thanks a lot for that (assuming it works) I have not
tried the solution myself yet as I may want to solve it
for myself now I am sure it is solvable (I will probably give up
though).

Is pushes 169, moves 494 a lot? Would you consider it a hard
puzzle to do? I was thinking it was not possible but the I have
thought that before of other puzzels.

I did try a computer program to solve it but after about 5 hours
it ran out of memory/disk space so I thought it must be tough!!
Its an old computer but it could thrash me at chess in a few seconds!!
Maybe the solving program was not very good.

Onec again thanks, my friend will be pleased.

Yes, it's solvable and the solution I've provided works.
I don't know how you import the LURD format solution into Sokoban V2.0 (or if that's possible).
I don't think this level is hard, it requires some thinking on how to move the boxes out. On a difficulty scale of 1 to 10, I would rate this one a 4.

The number of pushes/moves is not a lot -- at least not when you use the click-click (or drag & drop) method of moving the boxes. You're just have lots of boxes to move, not necessary making it difficult.

Computer solvers are good for small levels (small number of boxes). I think computer solvers takes away the fun of playing the game. Sure, I understand how sometimes you get frustrated and you just want the answer.

bren
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Joined: 2005-10-10

Well I had another go myself but I could not solve it so I gave up and used
the solution provided, I was quite surprised how easy it was in the end,
it didn't take as many moves as I expected to unlock the puzzle, it is just
there are so many different ways of approaching the problem.
I had convinced myself it had to be done in a particular way, following
one of my friends ideas so I was barking up the wrong tree!!
I just had a go without using the solution and I managed to do it because
I know the general methodology.
How would the puzzle rate on a scale of difficulty? (if there is such a thing).
I had done a few my friend could not manage so I would say it was
pretty tough, and the computerised solving software could not manage it on my rather ancient computer!!

minglw
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Joined: 2005-10-20

Bren, I am glad that you finally able to get thru this level.

You can definitely find better solutions than the one I've provided.

It's really hard to rate how difficult a level is because each of us
solve levels differently. And some of us are good at solving certain types
of level.

Usually, on a well-designed difficult level, it's hard to move the boxes into the goal position(s) -- even when the boxes are all in the goal area.
Sometimes, it's even hard to figure out where the boxes should go.

As I've said earlier, I would rate it 4/10.
The only difficult part in this level is just to figure out how to move
the boxes to the "goal" area. There's no difficult in figuring out how to move the boxes once they are in the "goal" area.
Even in figuring how to move the boxes out, the only challenge is to figure out how to "pack" an extra box in the "bottom" section without blocking the man/boxes.

As you play more levels that you consider difficult, you might even rate this level as 3/10 or even 2/10.

I would not consider the following level hard:


  

(level by Mic, part of the sokoblue/sokofun collection.)

This level also clearly separates the GOAL area and the box area.
And you're in a similar situation where you have to "pack" an extra box
in the bottom right area (and a few small things that I am sure you can iron them out very quickly).

But in term of the difficulty and idea, I would say it's about the same or a tiny bit more difficult than the one you've provided.

Please give it a try and let me know what you think!

bren
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Joined: 2005-10-10

Well I have done the puzzle you provided at last, initially I thought it was
impossible, then I thought it might be possible but I still could not do it
and I was beginning to thing it was impossible again.
However I finally solved it. I don't have a key stroke solution as there
was no way to save it but basically you move a box from the top right
into the bottom right so u can then move a box from the top left into
the top right, this creates enough space in the top left to allow a path through it, which is the key to solving the puzzle.

I think the problem is rather than thinkng out a solution I just play around with the boxes sometimes. I eventually realised that there were to many
boxes in the top left and thus maybe I could move one else where.

I don't know if I would have solved it without your clue, would have taken longer anyway. It is similar to another puzzle I solved but with two
rather than three rooms/areas.

I guess its easy when you know the solution!!

minglw
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Joined: 2005-10-20

This forum is too quiet. Not much going on.

Bren, good to know that you solved this one without much help.
It might take a little longer, but I am sure you can solve it without any help.

Most of the levels accessible by the general public are solvable.
I know a lot of the time, especially after many many tries and you think you've tried every possibility, you think the level is not solvable.
That's what makes it a good level.
As you solve more and more levels, you will gain experiences and learn
of certain traps/pitfalls.

For example: You might or might not recall that many people consider the "Sokoban for windows v1.5" level 4 was impossible to solve.


  Level: '#118' Nr: 118 Collection: 'Boxxle 2'

With some experimentation, you will find that the level is not impossible
to solve and is in fact not too difficult.

Here are two levels that you might be interested in playing when you have time. (assuming you've not solved them already)


  

Title:_Sokoplay-Levelpack_(13x12)
Author:_Mic_(G4B)

Here's_another_fun_level_to_play_with.
Try_to_solve_this_without_a_computer_solver.__


  

Title:_Special_level_10/2002
Author:_Kevin_B._Reilly

Enjoy!

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