New uploaded level sets

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Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06
New uploaded level sets

To the person, who has recently uploaded the Arrange sets and all of the Kevin sets:

It is clearly stated at the submit form of this site, to "Not upload the levels, you don't own the rights to".

Only Kevin B Reilly can submit his sets (and he of course didn't do that). And the authors of the Arrange sets can upload them.

This is important, because Kallmark's Sokoban for Windows is not freeware. Since any submission of levels is therefore a part of the monetary transaction, someone is making money with levels, which were done for free and were meant as freeware.

It is not a nice thing to put freeware levels into the non-freeware program (and the authors of the levels know nothing about it). Please avoid doing this in the future.

PS
If would be a different thing if the program would be freeware (or if the site would simply host levels with no program). Then we could just port around 40.000 new levels into it. And even then we would have to inform the authors about it.

Razorflame
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Joined: 2013-11-28

I don't think that is what is meant by that Mark. What is meant by this is not to upload level sets that authors have clearly stated that they don't want uploaded onto this site. Kevin B. Reiley has not done this, and therefore, his levels can be uploaded onto this site. Same for the Arranged level sets.

If you don't want your own levels to be uploaded onto this site, just e-mail Bjorn, and he'll remove them. Otherwise, just stay away from this discussion.

Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06

Stay away from discussion?? Do you know who do you have to thank, that the Arrange sets are public? Do you know, who made the Arrange sets as they are today?

I made the composition of the Arrange sets personally by many and many hours of work, erasing the duplicates. All the Arrange sets are unofficial otherwise and were (in their official structure) collected by the Werner Ettinger team, which created the elite non-public Soko site, which I'm a part of.

The Arrange sets didn't exist before. It was the heavy work by many members (me included), who collected various remodels, from places of the internet, which were mostly closed for public. And then we created these sets (months of work).

Despite the fact, that we are not the actual authors of the levels, without our work, players would never seen these levels, certainly not that well structured in closed collections (with all the level info included!)

The Arrage collections (Mass remodel included) were then basically unofficial, since they were created manually, and were meant as non-public domain.

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But I was a generous soul and could convince the Werner Ettinger team to release these sets to Let's logic site only, but before I had to erase all the duplicates.

With the levels on Kallmark's site as a part of the non-freeware program, the community which allowed those sets to be published to Let's logic, is (because of your actions) Not happy.

What you did was simply copy-pasted the hard work of the Werner Ettinger team and my later review of the levels to your computer. You have no credibility for these levels what so ever, but I have, since it is because of me, that these levels are public at all, and since I was personally responsible for the composition of David Skinner Arranged and Mass remodel sets; as well as the reviewed versions of all Arranged sets.

And now you are telling me to stay out of the discussion.

You need to learn your place in the Sokoban community and stop ambiciously grabbing the higher place, by making false moves.

Every move you've done so far is false: forcing others to give you solutions and levels; submitting an unresonable amount of autogens to Lets logic, making a lot of people angry; and now submitting levels, you have absolutely no right to submitting, making a lot of people (which gave you these levels in the first place) angry again.

Razorflame
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Joined: 2013-11-28

I never forced anybody to give me any solutions or levels. I politely asked for them. It is you who is blowing this whole thing out of proportion and it is you that needs to calm down.

Furthermore, who the hell do you think you are to talk to me like that. If you want to talk to someone like that, go find somewhere else to do it. Otherwise, stop submitting posts like this onto this forum.

Lastly, just because they're on this site, does not mean that they are not freeware. All levels can be downloaded off this site without having to download Kallmark's program. That's only a bonus that they are included on that program as well.

Therefore, they are NOT part of a monetary transaction, as you stated earlier.

Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06

You are missing the point. I will then tell you in the polite version.

I and Werner Ettinger are the only 2 people, who have the right over all the Arrange sets and the Mass remodel set. We created them. It was the project of the Sokoplaza forum, to create such unofficial arrange sets. Many months were needed to complete those sets.

We are the only 2 people, who everyone should be thanking, for also making those levels opened to the public.

It is our wish, that these levels are only on Let's logic site, since we released them there. No other site can have them, specially not if submitted behind our back. Do you think, we don't know how to click on the submit button. We could submit them here, if we wanted, but we don't want to.

It is for that very reason, that the warning to "Not submit the levels you don't own" is there. And it means what it says. It means: Do not upload if you are not the author or at least the person, who is directly responsible that the set exists (and the remodels or other unofficial sets by Various authors are the only such exceptions).

What's stopping you from importing the Arranged levels to Kallmark's program and play them. Why did you need to submit them, if we made no info what so ever, that you can do that. With your submission you are basically saying, that you also have the right over these levels.

Let me ask you this: Can I open my website and just upload any levels there. No, I can't. They must not even be on my site. Can I make them a part of my program and then start charging people. No, I most surely can't. All the above is not forbidden, but it surely is unethical.

PS
With every new build, all the levels on the site become a part of the program. One click on the Update of the program, will auto download all newly submitted sets and make it a part of the program.

So yes, submitting means that the levels are automatically a part of the non-freeware program.

Razorflame
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Joined: 2013-11-28

My reasoning for submitting the Arranged sets here is the following:

1) I did not know that there were any other circumstances such as those that you brought up, that would prevent me from submitting them here. I thought that they were just more public domain level sets that I could submit here to help expand this site's database of levels.
2) This site has very few level sets that have difficult puzzles, and I thought that by submitting some of the Arranged level sets here, I could share some more difficult puzzles with the community here that would not normally have the ability to play them or get them off of the Let's Logic site.
3) My intentions for submitting these levels to this site was not to cause a big fiasco over them, but rather, to generously share them with the community here, who has not seen many new level sets in the past few months. I thought it would be all right for me to upload them here.
4) I did not see anywhere that they were only going to be uploaded onto Let's Logic and nowhere else. If this was noted somewhere in the level sets, I would not have submitted them onto this site.

That being said, I believe that the currently uploaded Arranged level sets should stay, along with Thinking Rabbit Arranged, and any future sets will stay off this site.

Are you willing to allow this?

Also: Are the Monry, Gyjgw, Li Jin You, and York Shen collections part of collections of levels from this same group? If not, can they get uploaded onto this site?

Lastly, the post you just made would have been better if you had posted this in the first place instead of berating and lecturing me. Most people respond very negatively to such posts.

Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06

Monry is a typical set owned by the author, same for Gyjgw. Li Jin You is problematic, since he collected around 1400 levels, which are not his and actually put his name onto the collection. He meant "collected by Li Jin You". Regarding his actual 50 levels, same as Monry.

York Shen is again problematic, since it was Evgeny Grigoriev, who was the first one to present around 50 collections by him, reviewed by Werner Ettinger into 40 collections, when finally putting them into the remodels (so the initial 40 were split into a lot of parts). But I decided to keep them in the initial 40, put everything into 1 (5700 levels, 3000 direct duplicates) and removed the Sasquatch Remodels, which makes 701 (this is my personal reviewed version; the original has a lot more ~2200, but Let's logic already had some of them else-where). But still this is not Various Authors, since York Shen made all the remodels. So this set is for York Shen to decide.

What Not to submit: Li Jin You with 1400 levels that are not his (so the actual authors are not named); all the Arranged with Mass Remodel (since those sets were created by Sokoplaza members); York Shen (original non reviewed version of 2200 levels= all his remodels in one place).

What could be submitted: Monry, Gyjgw (original sets), Zbigniew Kornas, Sasquatch remodels (owned by DW Skinner and York Shen). And maybe York Shen reviewed version of 701 levels. But the authors should be contacted first, specially York Shen.

Razorflame
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I don't even have the 2,200 level set of York Shen, so that would not matter. I'll go about contacting York Shen about his collection, and will ask anian to contact Gyjgw and ask him about his collection you submitted onto Let's Logic.

Not sure how to get into contact with Monry, but if I could, I'd ask him too.

Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06

Here the unwritten general rules of Sokoban:
-never take a level of someone else and put your name on it,
-never make a remodel, without stating the original author,
-never make a remodel to similar to the original,
-never make a level of unknown origin, a part of your collection,

-never ask for solutions, without offering solutions,
-never ask the admin of this site for solutions,
-never make any solutions for hard levels public,
for instance the solution for the King of my Amazing Orimazing was published on the this forum, which robbes the level of its essence, since anyone can just copy this solution, without playing at all, and without offering anything;

-never ask for levels, specially unofficial or payable ones,
-never make any levels public (if you didn't make them yourself) on any site,
-never submit or publish the unsolvable level,
-never make a huge amount of autogens (when I made 10,000 of them= Hyper sets, I caused a "riot", and thus removed those levels from all sites; ironically they kept them on Let's logic, without me knowing that the levels are there; if I was to remove them now, I would make the "riot" again, since I would be messing severely with the scoring

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Let's take a look at some examples:

Buddy Casamis or Bugs collections.
These collections are a theft of copyrights! They brake the general 4 rules.

20 percent of all levels in Bugs collections are a direct copy of other levels (Casamis is not the author!), another 60 percent is a poor remodel, with the main idea not very much changed from original (original authors are not stated!), only 20 percent are the work of Casamis. And there are around 4,000 levels in his packs!

All Bugs collections should be removed entirely from any site, but since nobody wants to speak about this, they remain. Mainly because nobody is willing to check 4,000 levels and determine which are his, remodels or direct copies.

Evgeny Grigoriev made a joke once: "The Bugs collections are filled with "bugs"= computer error", since there are a lot of Evgeny's levels in there.

Casamis is now mostly known as the plagiator, and he was kicked of the Yahoo Soko group for his actions. Nobody heard of him since.

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One of the levels in the old Park collection was a direct copy of one of my levels from the Infinity. This brakes the rules again. Luckily I've seen this, and submitted the reviewed version.

Some of the levels in the Rebus 1 collection were a poor remodels of my Labyrinth levels. Original author was not stated! Read this:
http://www.sourcecode.se/sokoban/node/552

Luckily I've seen this, and submitted the reviewed version.

My old Chimera levels had some poor remodels of Evgeny's levels. I didn't name the original author. But I've fixed this later, by removing those levels from the set. The reviewed version was not implemented to Let's logic, despite my submission to David.

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As you can see from the above examples, any braking of the rules, which I've stated at the beginning, will cause general problems and unhappy people and thus unhappy posts.

hosszu9764
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Joined: 2012-10-13

hi,

how can i upload my solved levels from my ccomputer, I don't find them...

thanks

Mark
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Joined: 2007-03-06

They are in My documents folder.